District employees far outnumbered parents.

Regarding speakers here is the tally I have:
Parents 17
Both Parents and teachers or employee 2
Teacher1
Unknown/neither 3
Students 2
Other issue 1
But Ms. Busse I understand your frustration with the issue and the board! I am glad that we have teachers and employees that fight so hard for the schools-now if we could only get the board to do the same!

Hi Vanessa,

You lost me a little on that, I think you are referencing the number of speakers? I think that's a little off, as there were 24 speakers Thurs night, and your count totals 26. The room was full of administrators, principals and teachers. They were recognizing several schools for performance, which I always favor. However, I did arrive early specifically to get a seat and be prepared to sign in to speak. I was barred at the door and told that they were reserving seating for the principals. The calendar has nothing to do with that, but it infuriates me. They are not entitled to priority seating because they are principals. Looks to me like the district was trying to stack the room.

You and I probably have very different views of this issue, Vanessa. Mine is more of a policy and political opinion of the manner in which the previous board voted in the calendar, I really don't care about the dates of the calendar per se. The old board should have never taken a vote to encumber a future board. I believe that was intentional to create controversy for a newly seated board.

Kind Regards,
Catherine

Yes Catherine you and I disagree, my point being and sorry I got my numbers wrong, your general comment " district employees far out number parents", might have lead readers to believe parents were not there. You and I know that was not the case, so please do not mislead!
As far as a calendar goes , you are right it was political, a power play. But, please tell me when if ever Cobb County has voted on and or changed a calendar in Febuary for the Next School??
What happens when the board changes again, and they want to change what you believe to be best? I bet you I'll be screaming " foul" at the top of you lungs!! Well so am I.

Catherine, please note I mean no disrespect, I know as a parent you fight very hard for what is best for children.

I didn't say we disagreed, I said we have a different views. You are looking at this as a calendar issue and the manner in which it was changed, which is absolutely your right. I am looking at it from the perspective that the old board intentionally made a decision that they knew would encumber the future board- that was the power play. They did not provide any data as to student achievement or costs to operate a balanced calendar. I have always wondered what they were hiding when people were asking about the costs, especially as we knew we would face a significant reduction in revenue and subsequent draw down from the state.

David asked about the composition of the audience. There were more district employees in the room than parents. I mislead nobody, you made that assumption.

As to screaming, I've sat in that board room many, many times and disagreed about what was occurring, and I have never screamed at the top of my lungs. I hope I never behave the way people were behaving the other night. I can only hope that my self respect would take over if I were ever tempted to do so. I am stunned that people are threatening recall against elected officials who kept their campaign promises.

You, and everybody else, are entitled to your opinion.

Thank you for the clarification, Vanessa.

Best,
Catherine

I work full time and go to school full time, Childcare has never been an issue for me. I have great kids with great friend who are always willing to take them and help me out!
You yet to answer me, where do your children go to school again??

Going to school may not be daycare but all the weeks off require daycare for households with two parents working or single parent families.

My friend who daughter is in AP classes-loves the added breaks!
It is a matter of preference.
But, do NOT kid yourself in thinking this was about the kids or education.
This was about a self serving agenda and bully-nothing else!

•Representative democracy is a form of government founded on the principle of elected individuals representing the people, as opposed to either autocracy or direct democracy.

8/15 or 8/17, the two choices combined would not have surpassed the 70% supporting the balanced schedule. The only political agenda that showed up at tonight's board meeting was a power play by the new board members. What these three don't understand is that their opinions are of little importance. Their votes should represent the opinion of those who elected them.
Recall is not something to be ruled out!

Kathy Angelucci, who started this mess, made the two calendars, so no, she did not want to split the vote.
Also, only the four who voted FOR the new traditional calendar, vote FOR the survey!
Unfortunately the results were not what they wanted.
Even if you add the August 15 and 17 together, it was not even close to 50% or the majority the Fab Four thought they would receiveM

Speakers sign in to speak, they are not chosen

I'm a parent at Big Shanty and Kennesaw, yes the calendar is an improvement.
Come meet Kathleen Angelucci on March 8 at North Cobb High School, I believe there might be a parent or two there who feel and believe the balanced calendar is an improvement!

Vanessa, why is the balanced calendar better? I have a niece and nephew in Cobb schools and they really would like the two extra weeks of summer vacation. I will say that they don't like the fact that they wouldn't have a break in September, but their parents are happy that they don't have to find somebody to watch them that week.

@ PAM, yes the balanced calendar is better for Me , My child care cost have actually gone down, because for me it is easier to find child care ( friends-I have no family here) to watch my kids those weeks off, then during summers. Then again, I plan ahead.
But I think you are missing the point, the calendar is about a preference, you will not make everyone happy.
But, as you stated you do not have children in CCSD,only a niece and nephew. So why the interst??

Why am I interested? Because I have lived in Cobb County all my life (born in Kennestone Hospital), I pay school taxes and I have family going to school in Cobb County. My belief is that if you pay taxes for something, you have a right to be interested in it. And you are correct - whatever calendar they use, not everybody will be happy. Our elections usually equal out pretty evenly, so half like one thing and half like the other. And I'm sure that most people do plan ahead, although you wouldn't think so after hearing the lady on the news the other night complaining about how so many breaks on the traditional calendar are going to cause her problems. You get more breaks on the balanced calendar.

I feel it's not a matter if we "can" it's why?
According to the 2009-10 rankings of elementary schools in Georgia by CRCT scores, 12 Cobb county schools ranked in the top 50. Zero from Cherokee. Zero from Paulding. Why model our calendar after theirs? If it's not broke, don't fix it.

Following J Holland's comment "if it's not broke, don't fix it". As a matter of fact it wasn't broken. The balanced calendar was met with enthusiasm by parents, teachers, and community members. This issue was voted on and passed on Nov. 11, 2009. The balanced calendar was in effect prior to the election of the three new board members. There should never have been a second vote. Will every issue that was discussed and voted on prior to Jan. 2011 have to be brought to a vote again?
As for the 12 Cobb County schools ranked in the top 50... to what top 50 do you refer? The top 50 serving the best lunches? The top 50 with the largest student population? The top 50 with the most attractive teachers? It's only an accurate comparison when apples are compared to apples. The demographics of both Cherokee County and Paulding County when compared with the twelve Cobb County schools are undoubtably quite different.

MW, only you can add 10 and 17 together to get the majority. You might want to check your calculator.

MW - if you look at the 8/15 and 8/17 calendars, there are less breaks than the 8/1 calendar. So I'm not sure where your theory on too many interruptions of the school year is coming from. Once again, I don't think anybody is looking at the calendars.

No additional day care is necessary, it is merely needed at different times of the year. The students are in school the same number of days using the balanced calendar as they would be on either of the other two options. The math is not difficult. Well, maybe it is for some of you.
I'm curious as to what results CJ has used to determine that the 8/15 and 8/17 votes combined make up 51%. I have studied the results of the survey and no where can I find numbers that add up to 51% in favor of changing the balanced calendar.

Every special education teacher I've spoke to think the constant breaks throw the children off.

I don't know how you can say "the majority of the parents" when most of the parents I've talked to are against it.

C Matt- I will ask you the same question I asked MW-what school do you children attend?? Because, I enjoy when people say they have never meet a parent who likes the balanced calendar, yet they never say the name if their school.????

Camps are much less expensive over the summer. Many parents have neighborhood
childcare share groups, where each parent has their day with a group of children while their parent works.

The majority of parents are those who voted for the balanced calendar as evidenced in the survey voting results. It doesn't matter who anyone talked to or to how many they talked. The issue is that the opinions of the people were ignored by their representatives. This is the type of government that has recently seen protest and upheaval. The scale of the protest in Cobb County will be smaller but it will be heard and those representatives who failed their constituents will hear them roar.

E-same here!

Do you give credence to people who took time to email the board. Go to COBBk12.org and watch Jerry Bontrager present the emails to Tim Stultz.
Again, the emails ran 70% for a balanced calendar against the 30% traditional.
It is interesting that the 70% keeps coming into play-yet you still believe it is a made up number?

I absoluely believe people emailed, and I even said that the data is a bit dirty but that they certainly got the vote out well. However, I will point out that when I downloaded the data and calculated the totals (which was difficult because the data is not clean), I got a high of just over 68% for balanced. That's pretty close to 70, though.

That said, the lack of credence (which does not mean belief, but *credit* or *worth*) I speak of is in the value of a survey conducted in this manner, the methodology of the survey, and whether or not a board ought to utilize it as the sole basis for a decision. Not credence in the number 70 (or any other number).

CJ I think we agree more then disagree. I just find it interesting that the one who voted for the survey ( Angelucci, Stultz, Sweeny, Bartlettand Morgan), 4 out of 5 dismissed the results.
Had the results shown what they were looking for- they would have said the have the majority of community is behind this decision, instead it back fired on them-and I believe it will continue to back fire on them.

Maybe a good teacher can, but not all students can. Again- why model our calendar after Paulding and Cherokee? Cobb County schools CRCT test score had 12 in the top 50 (elementary) while they had ZERO.

It's not about childcare. Beat a new drum.

So the children in Cobb County will get stupider (like your implied comment about Cherokee)? I am sure the Paulding and Cherokee parents appreciate that. Nice.

The ones beating the childcare drums are the ones supporting the traditional calendar. I am focused on increasing my children's performance and it is a bit premature to say a Balanced Calendar didn't work in Cobb when it was never given a chance to prove or disprove. The children stay the same folks. Either they can pass the CRCT or they can't. Let's give Cobb kids a little credit and try the balanced calendar. Oh wait. We are too reactionary to try anything new. Way to be progressive.

Why should teachers/employees be filtered out of a survey that involves them? Just what are you afraid of, change or teachers? Unless you spoke to everyone who voted your argument holds no weight.

Again, I asked , where do you children go to school??
I love when they state " I never met a parent" yet do not state their school.

Your argument for not changing something that has been in effect for years is ridiculous. I'm sure there were people in the south during the mid-19th century who saw no need to end slavery. For them, it had worked just fine for years. For slaves, it didn't work at all, ever.
I have lived here for 23 years. I have accepted the things that are different in Georgia from the state where I had lived for 30 years. Maryland schools may well be ranked among the best in the nation but it is not because of their calendar. Students in Maryland attend school for the number of days required by the federal and state education departments. Just as the students in Cobb County, Georgia do. As Lewis Grizzard used to say "Delta is ready when you are."

If the board presented data- the there would be no arguments. but instead, it was a political power pay-nothing else.
Also, if Kathleen Angelucci, Tim Stultz and Scott Sweeny had so much data, that the traditional calendar was better, why did they not present it?
Simple- they did not care what data showed.

I am unable to follow the previous comment. I think that CJ is saying that his vote should not be counted because he doesn't know what's best for the majority of Cobb County students. That's why there was a survey CJ. None of the three new board members are educators, statisticians, or academic research experts. If I am reading CJ's comment properly only board members with the appropriate professional backgrounds should vote on board policy. The implementation of the balanced calendar that was approved for the school years Fall 2010 - Spring 2013 can never be researched due to the political power play brought about by the second vote. Let's hope that Lynda Crowder-Eagle, David Banks, and David Morgan continue the good fight.

I'm confused also.
You believe that the traditional is more beneficial for you family, I understand that.
There are positive and negatives for all calendars. ok
You state their were some key features that were missing that large schools factually find beneficial?
Can you elaborate with the links of the school systems you study?
Thanks

Vanessa, I spent hours doing research. I gave a summary link with a bibiliography below. I have not mentioned the specific school system that I *was employed by for several years* here because there's no reason to drag them in there. Please by all means, do your own research, just as I expect our board members to have done. I have nothing to fear from your doing so and have provided a starting point.

Look at the stats. Cobb leads the way in elementary 2009-2010 CRCT results . Why will that be hard to continue if they return the calendar to the way it was in 2009-2010 when the data was collected?

And it is not free daycare. AGAIN. It is not free daycare. The daycare arguement is the last of many that my children and family face. I'm glad the new schedule is working for your family. My special education child (started at 3) struggles terribly after each break.

Again I ask, why are we not modeling our calendar after the most successful schools in the nation?

San Diego has year round school. Their scores are much higher than ours.
Again, we are upset because the decision was made before proper DATA could be analyzed.
@ J Holland- if our score go up for the 2010-2011, will you still hold your beliefs?
What if it goes up for 2010-2011, and drops significantly for 2011-2012 , will you still believe change is not good.

I know if it was proven that board made the decision in good faith, because the scores were declining ( all results are not in yets-so through that reason out the door), it will save significant amount of money ( have they present or worked on the budget yet?)
then I would changed my mind.
I am not for one calendar or another, wha tI want is board who lives up to the District Expectation of
"The Cobb County School (District) acknowledges that effective district reaches its full potential only when it knows and meets the needs of students and operates based on a mission and vision, supported by meaningful, concrete goals, DEVELOPED BY AND SHARED by it STAKEHOLDES"

Several California implementations of year-round school are quite functional. However, the options being considered here do NOT look very much like the successful year-round implementations. It's apples and oranges, at best.

No, you should compare it to the counties scoring the highest. Numbers don't lie.

I do not agree that parents, teachers, students, and administrators should be considered as one constituent group. If you make that supposition who would you include among the members of another constituent group, Allison Bartlett, Tim Stultz, Kathleen Angelucci and Scott Sweeney? Those numbers seem somewhat skewed and yet the constituent gang of four have won this round. The fight is not over!

I did not say that I considered them all one group. I said that any one group's feelings are not a good basis for making changes. I parenthetically listed the potential 'groups' and by doing so implied that I believed one group managed to convey a stronger voice than the rest without pointing a finger at a specific. I do have quite a few nits to pick with the survey, but there's clearly something here that you and I fundamentally disagree on: I definitely do not think that an online poll conducted over the course of a couple of weeks (this year *or* last year) is the correct way for a board to approach attempts to improve things, nor do I believe that those elected officials should be obligated to reflect the results of the survey as conducted. I *might* be convinced that if the survey were taken in a formal and correct manner, and results divided by district, that there's a reasonable argument for an elected official to give extremely heavy weight to what is expressed in that survey, but there are so many things wrong with the way this survey was conducted, starting with no way to know how the 'votes' might distribute across district lines and ending with the way it was constructed with options, communicated to the public on such a short time frame (both years, not just this one!). We could also talk about the intent of representative democracy if you like, or the value of elected school boards . Probably best to assume we'll disagree there as well, though.

Have you looked at results from San Diego? North Carolina? Colorado? Just curious?

Yes, Vanessa. One of the studies focused particularly on Maryland and North Carolina. Did you read what the statistical summaries of those implementations said and think through the differences between what's in LA and SD as compared with what the board is doing here?

But what do you say to the information CJ has provided? Balanced calendars have historically not worked. The leading school districts in the country have a start just before or after labor day and finishing in June.
I am thinking more "Why are they NOT in school like every other schoold district" than "where will they go during this break" when I am making arrangements for their care during the new breaks.

Thank you Michael for allowing us to participate in this forum. I am saddened that there is such a marked divide within our community.

Interesting that you make reference to Indiana Education Forum. My father taught in Indiana for more than thirty years. In an effort to prove that their reforms were benefitting the students and raising test scores the state department of education lowered the number of correct answers each year until that got the results that they needed to prove that the reform had worked. Surveys and test results can both be skewed for political benefit.

You're so *totally* right about that, Lisa! That's why I get so hot about the board members' not doing their research. It takes a lot of time to read broadly enough and think carefully enough about what matches up, what doesn't, what's applicable in one context but not in another, etc. Taken as a whole body of research, there are patterns and betters and worses, but it's just not a good idea to go off any one single data point. The research and stats around calendars in particular is really fraught with issues and bendable, because the causal links are very, very weak. No way to really prove that one start/stop pattern is the *cause* of a drop or a rise, esp when those drops/rises are barely outside the standard deviation.

Your point is also a really strong reason why using surveys (whether ill or well done) as the sole decision criteria is a flawed concept. Reminds me sometimes of how folks well versed in biblical text can bend things in some amazing frightening ways...

What's the big fuss about school beginning after Labor Day and ending May 31st.? If there are days when bad weather closes schools, then make up the days on any sunny Saturday before the last day in May. This allows three full months - June, July, August - for kids to work and earn bucks for college....or whatever.

Hi Thomas, welcome to the biggest comment board out there! If you will scroll down towards the end, people are now more upset about not getting the September and February weeks off because they have planned and paid for vacations. I understand the frustration. It started out being a childcare issue, now it's evolved into a vacation issue. It's the story that will not die. And re-reading my comment, all nuts aren't bad.

I understand why some people are mad. Anything that upsets your life will make you crazy. I guess I'm just confused as to why the school board allowed people to "vote" on the calendar. If you allow everybody to put their two cents' worth in, you are going to have problems and you are going to make the nightly news. Maybe it's a good thing that our politicians are getting the heat to a certain degree, but quite frankly I have just been embarrassed watching our residents on the local news. Why are they complaining? Because the school board can't seem to make up their minds? Fine. But I think everybody is getting a little carried away. Don't complain because you don't know what you are going to do with your kids during the breaks. Complain because the school board is acting strange. School breaks have always happened. A good parent will deal with it. Don't stand up there and cry because you work and have no idea what will happen to your child. Whether school starts in early August or mid-August really shouldn't be an issue.

Nods. I do understand where you're coming from, Pam. My kids are older (middle and high), so daycare really isn't a consideration for me at this point, and given our split schedule, never has been too much of an issue. But I totally understand the feeling of helplessness that occurs when you can't find someone when you need them. I'd rather see people focusing on the facts of the situation, too.

CJ, I understand that people are concerned about finding daycare, but if you look at the calendars (has anybody done that?) they will be better off with the traditional one. One less week during the school year to have to find somebody to take care of your kids. So I can't really figure out where the feeling of helplessness comes from. But you are correct, people are focusing on the wrong things.

@Vote Again Sadly, the "gang of four" will remain at least the "gang of three" for the next four years. Let's make sure that the fourth member is ousted when her reelection is at hand.

VoteAgain, I don't think the survey was necessarily off - might be, might not be ( in terms of whether it truly represents the "will of the majority") - It seems really clear to me that balanced calendar supporters are passionate about it (though it might be a mystery to me why). But really, I think it's got to be the case that there are 'pockets' of people in certain districts who feel differently - there's no way for a board member to know numerically from this survey how *his or her* people voted, for example. I am aware that my post 6 member voted in the way I'd want him to, and if he'd gone with the survey, I dunno if that would have been right or wrong from a majority perspective. A real ballot would solve that, but state law says that the responsibility for setting calendars belongs to the boards within state established parameters (some states, like NC, have a law that prevents starting earlier than X, as well as the usual number of days and/or hours laws). So I'm pretty sure you're right that folks who are unhappy with their member's vote will need to vote at re-election time to deal with expressing their thoughts.

Yeah. People are very passionate about this one, and living in a glass house, I sure can't throw stones!

Oh, I am sure that in 'real life' we'd get along just fine. Passionate, caring mothers often have far more in common that not. No doubt that'd be true here, too.

Agree, She lost my respect with "grave concern" for Six Flags...Patch I think you have a chance to break a story here!! MDJ, is too biased to look into, after all they are the ones who got her elected!!!

I meant it was free as opposed to private schools. I pay school taxes and I don't have kids in school. I don't particularly think that's fair either, but it's the way it is. I looked at the different calendars and I don't really see a lot of difference, except at Christmas. It seems that most of you are more upset about the start date. If most of you don't like all of the breaks during the school year, why don't you suggest they do it like they did when I was a kid. Start school after Labor Day. That gives the kids three months during the summer to play. I don't know too many kids that wouldn't like that, regardless of what the survey said. And finding child care would be easier according to you. But to say that a lot of parents aren't able to find child care in September and February is moot since all three calendars have time off during the year, whether it's in September, October, November, December, January, February, March, April, or May. I don't think the time of year makes any difference. Am I wrong about this?

Okay, unless I'm reading the calendars wrong, this is how it breaks down: for the current school year, they have three weeks off (not including the holiday weeks), in September, February and April. On the calendar that has an August 1 start date, they have three weeks also, same months. The calendar for the August 15 start date shows just two full weeks off (not including holiday weeks). So if all you parents are worried about finding day care, why isn't the August 15 date preferable? What am I missing here?

I haven't made an attempt to count, Pam, but I think those who are taking up the potential daycare flag are happy with the outcome of 8/15. A lot of that conv. happened prior to the decision.

It's really a simple issue. The Board can make any changes they want. I think it's great that we have the power to protest changes if we don't like them but rarely do our protests work, though. I still don't know what the big deal is if the kids start on 8/1 or 8/15. It's two weeks extra summer vacation. One less week during the school year that you have to find child care. Seems like that would be a no-brainer. Of course, if you made vacation plans based on the old calendar, it may be an issue, but only if you scheduled a vacation in September. That is the only week that was removed from the 8/1 calendar. You can still vacation in February and April and the holidays. I will admit that going to school the week before Christmas might cause problems for people who have to travel, but I have to believe that most people want to be home with their children on Christmas morning. I truly believe the whole issue is about the school board. It's gotten away from what is best for the kids. It's all about the people who took the survey and are unhappy that their wishes weren't granted. And since a daycare issue pertains to younger children, I'm guessing that they didn't vote on the survey.

When did deciding the school year schedule become an issue that the public could decide? Hasn't it always been the decision of the school board? I agree that maybe the general public should have some input in the matter, but it is a law that we should? I have lived in Cobb County all my life, and I have to admit that I don't know.

I don't think anyone is winning here. I think it's deplorable that the current board reversed the decision that was voted on last year.
I remember last year, when the balanced calendar was introduced people hated the idea and in turn many of the opponents of the balanced calendar were voted in (or ran unopposed). Many people have changed their minds and now prefer it. The board, IMO, made 2 huge mistakes.
1.Put out a survey (which many believed was a vote) and do whatever the heck they wanted anyway.
2. Reverse the calendar before the first year runs its course.

I know this list could be much, much longer.

Hi, Roxane, I'm glad you asked. That was a recurring theme during the public comments from balanced-calendar proponents last night. Several speakers accused Board of Education members of putting the needs of Six Flags ahead of the needs of schoolchildren. It reminded me of when I was in high school and Virginia passed a law requiring all school districts to start after Labor Day; it was popularly known as the Kings Dominion Relief Act because the common belief was that the law's purpose was to ensure the maximum tourist season for the theme parks in the commonwealth. That was a quarter-century ago, and the law remains in effect.

Michael, I have Ms. Angelucci email..quote with her " grave concern" regarding loss of revenue for six flags, a number I could not get six flags to confirm or deny! Interesting??

Cobb County School District Handbook
District Expectation:

"The Cobb County School (District) acknowledges that effective district reaches it's full potential only when it knows and meets the needs of it's students and OPERATES based on a mission and vision, SUPPORTED by MEANINGFUL, CONCRETE GOALS, DEVELOPED AND SHARED by it's STAKEHOLDERS. "

So are you White Water/Six Flags is it Stakeholder??
Did the board know and meet the needs of students?
Was the decision supported by meaningful, concrete goals?.

No, it was a self serving campaign promise! And probably a pay off by White/Six-!!

Also, The number 2.4 million came from Representative Matt Dollar, when I contact both Six Flags/Matt Dollar and Ms. Angelucci-
Six Flags would not confirm or deny that number? I find that interesting??
Matt Dollar never respond back
Ms. Angelucci just site that she got the figure from Mr. Dollar, but could not provide data or accounting to back it up! Again interesting ?

Good luck with that! It would be a full-time job trying to oust every public figure who didn't live up to our expectations.

I question if he can even spell "lawmaker"!

I think with this, we can definitely find common ground, Vanessa: "before the board makes a sudden and drastic decision like this , they need to present a better argument." It may be the case that my particular board member is better aligned with my desires than most, but this board and the last one both fail on that count for me!

I certainly do. I think I want you for my best friend. You go at things with the same furor as me.
I hadn't thought about AYP and the number of absences. Ha Ha. Yet another piece of info those who "voted their conscience" rather than for the wishes of their constituients failed to factor in. We all have standards of which we should be proud to uphold. Unfortunately, the politician bug has invaded our newly elected board members and they believe themselves to be immune to an expectation of decency.

Vanessa, you are correct about the February break. But it does show that kids would have fewer breaks during the year. And, yes, those who have paid for September vacations will have problems. And going until December 23 will be an issue for some people also. I understand all of this, but there has been so much talk about how kids don't need so many breaks. They don't get as many breaks with the 8/15 and 8/17 schedule. And I agree that the school board is a little screwed up. The survey should never have been put out there. I think it's great that SOMETHING got parents motivated, but this survey was going to be a problem from the start. These people were elected by us. Granted, some of them had no competition, but that just tells me how little the parents care. If we care so much about our kids' education, why aren't there 100 people lining up to run for the school board? That's how you make changes. If there is only one person running for each district, that spells apathy in capital letters.

@ Pam- the talk has been whether or not kids need breaks during the school, I could also add the argument do kids need long summers- again it is about Preference. It is a real concern for parents when they are going to be out money or explaining/defending themselves to a social worker because they pulled their children out for a vacation they already paid for.
Again, I agree that the survey should have never been put out there, but those who voted for it, should have given it more credit than they did. It just did not show the results they wanted.

I agree about running for school board, I was not happy with either Republcan Candidate. I know as an independent , I would have to run as Republican or Democrat. I know being a Democrat in Cobb County will probably not get you far. Maybe if they changed the system so you do not have to declare a party, more people would run? I do not know. I agree with the apathy, believe it or not I was very involved with getting Angelucci elected, she shore to be she was just a concern PTA with the way the board was behaving. She wanted to mend fences. I do not believe she is doing either.

I do like that discussion is happening!

Also, in light of Vote Again's query about America's comparatives to European and Asian systems, I came across these handy dandy tables from the EU council showing start dates across countries (weird that Japan's got schools listed, too...) Interesting to read through, actually.

Northern Hemisphere: http://www.ecis.org/uploaded/Schools_Calendar/Northern.pdf
Southern Hemisphere: http://www.ecis.org/uploaded/Schools_Calendar/Southern.pdf

Thanks CJ-I just wished it said or I wish Georgia had standards that a calendar must be approved 1 or 2 years in advance.

Or Clayton County, or Atlanta City... That still doesn't make our board look great, it just makes it look less bad.
There will be plenty of funny money numbers thrown out with the budget and then at the last minute there will be another miracle and an extra $64,000,000 will show up just in time to hire back everyone they fired.

The budget will become the next new horror to be introduced to the public. By introducing frighteningly large cuts to next year's budget and then miraculously finding the money at the last minute the reputations of our board members will be restored and all will be right with the world. Or maybe not....

I spent a great deal of time at the Dome last session, haven't been able to this year. State revenues were way down last year, as we all know. I can tell you that last year, the legislators were all predicting that this year's numbers would be even worse. My concern about this entire issue is that the state could further reduce the number of school days. If we have a balanced calendar, those reductions could create even more days off. While that sounds great to those who like the breaks, what is the implication for the children.

I saw an earlier post on this thread that when the board voted in the balanced calendar in Nov 2009 that it was very popular. That is simply not the fact. I was there that day. There were 19 public speakers, 18 in favor, one ambivalent and zero in favor.

According th Deal State of the State, He pledge to make k-12 a top Priority by 1) by ending teachers furlough days and 2) restoring money so district will be able to operate at 180 days. When I spoke with Representative Ed Seltzer, he pedigree no further cuts in education and again stress Gov Nathan Deal commitment to education.

Again, the children will go to school 180 day whether it's spread out over 9 months, 10 months, 11 months or 12 months.

Yes, I know Georgia Needs Summers is very vocal at School Board Meetings, I have a feeling things will change soon and more parents will speak and be heard !

You're right, that's what Deal said. Time will tell as to whether or not he is able to keep his word about furloughs. My suspicion is that they will have to furlough because the money isn't going to be there due to downturn in economy. I am not convinced that the kids will go to school for 180 days- they aren't going 180 days this year. They reduced it to 175 due to budget cuts. Could be fewer next year. Only time will tell on that one.

Thank you for the positive response. People are having a hard time seeing the forest for the trees, for lack of a better way to put it. But it is good to see parents getting motivated about something. Cobb County has always been a great place to live and I hope it continues to be so since I don't want to live anywhere else (besides on the beach in Florida).

Unfortunately, power is not something that is fairly shared by those consider it to be theirs. Until we, the people of Cobb County, regain the power that has been taken from us the Cobb County School Board will continue to make decisions based on their own misguided opinions rather than the desires of the citizens of Cobb County. Make sure that you share your opinions with the each member of the board and do your best to ensure that others you know do the same. At worst, we will continue to hear about "jacked up" emails. At best, there will be resignations of members who can't stand the heat.

You can recall, but it will take a long time. I read the steps you have to take and it is not easy. And you have to find somebody else who cares enough to run for the position. There has been a lot of heated discussions going on about this issue, but if I remember correctly, a lot of the board members ran unopposed. My own humble opinion is that unless you have scheduled and paid for a vacation in September or February, just accept the fact that your kids will probably enjoy having two more weeks of summer (like everybody else in this country). Of course they probably liked the week off in September (stupid), one in February and one in April. The other two calendars don't have three weeks off. Which should make parents happy.

Thanks for your rational comments, Pam. I actually do political and campaign work, so I'm very familiar with the recall process, and it is virtually impossible. They might be able to get through the petition process, but that's it. You cannot recall a seated elected official because of the way they vote in office. It just doesn't work that way. The real question is how much of their lives people are willing to give up to their anger and hatred. Of the seated board members, I think LCE is the only one who ran unopposed.

People who legitimately and truly paid for a vacation prior to Feb 17 should be responsible parents, go the their kids schools, make arrangements to get their kids' work and go. But if you paid for that trip on or after Feb 18 then you knew the school schedule.

Thank you Catherine. I honestly believe that if you scheduled a vacation for September or February that you should be able to get your money back. But I think it's not even about that any more. I think it's simply about the board members changing their minds. It's turned into a hatefest. But I am happy that the parents decided to get involved.

Yes, this has been a very heated debate. I, for one, would not want to be on that board. Regardless of whether they had any opposition in the election, there still weren't hundreds of people lining up for the position. In fact, there were several different positions that had only one person running. Sad.

Hi, Catherine, my apologies for not being clear. I was referring only to the general elections in 2010 and 2008. LCE did face an opponent in the general election in 2008, by the way. But you are correct: Opposition is opposition, regardless of whether it's within or outside the party. So all of the seven current board members did face opposition.

I appreciate the clarification. I couldn't remember about that seat.

Vanessa,

The smug nasty tone is unnecessary. I have no affiliation with Georgia Needs Summers, Six Flags/White Water. Like I've said before, the dates on the calendar don't matter to me.
Thanks,
Catherine

Vanessa,
You ask a legitimate question about the grading and testing issue. Contact the board members and ask them to make a policy to provide what you just raised. Draft up what you want it to contain and champion that issue.

Catherine

within a couple of months are your key words- if you planned a vacation in Sept. in the last six-months, chances are you will not get all of your money back.
I have a friend who yes planned a cruise in Sept- they have runned the numbers they will be out $1500 if they cancel ( half)-what would you do?
What would you do if your sister a teacher planned a wedding for Sept break, and now fears she might loose her job or the $8000 she already put into it? Family has made arrangements to travel.
Calendar are made a year or two in advance and this is the FIRST time I have ever known it to be changed at the last minute.
Trust has been broken- that is the heart of the issue.
But, Six Flags and Georgia Need Summers- are rejoicing!

Vanessa-

The teacher my child had last year is getting married at end of March this year so that she'll have two weeks off. She's taking last week of March and first week of April (Spring Break week) so she'll have two weeks. Notice that the February break didn't factor into that for her.

I can understand your sister's concern, but I've had children graduate out Cobb schools, they've had teachers get married during the school year. She isn't going to lose her job because she got married during the school year.

@ Catherine- sorry for smug tone, I wanted to make sure , because you have mention being involved political process before.
As far as emailing the board -I have both before and after the vote-asking that question- to date to no response.
and
Yes Pam and Catherine-I have paid for a condo in Sept because I am attending my neice's wedding . She actually planned it around when my family could be there. We did not start the planning process until after the passing of the calendars in 2009.

The other reason I am upset is I will not get to spend Christmas with my family- there is not enough time to travel- going to Dec 23, is just crazy.

I hope the school attendence policy and teachers are cooperative

Vanessa-

Like I said, I've had children graduate so I've been at this for a while. None of my family lives here so I'm in the same boat as you with the traveling. However, there have been many, many times that school has gotten out a few days before Christmas. Calendars fell that way when I was growing up too.

IMHO, the attendance policies need to be managed according to the kids with attendance issues instead of this ridiculous "one-size-fits-all" approach of getting 5 day absence notices and 10 day social worker intervention. I can tell you at the time that was implemented, I called the central office and asked why they were doing that. They told me at the time it was because certain parts of the student population were pulled out to work or babysit for their younger siblings when their parents work. That is very sad to me. However, I think they need to address their policy to the kids with that issue rather than across the entire population. When my youngest child had a tonsillectomy they knew it advance (via Dr.'s note) and I still got their stupid social worker letter. That's just make work and wastes money.

Vanessa, I'm curious as which cruiseline you are talking about, because all of the major cruiselines will fully refund your money if you cancel the cruise 60 days before the cruise (not 60 days after you book it). It's February, so that is most definitely 60 days before the cruise in September. Of course, I would be unhappy at having to cancel a cruise too. And having the kids in school on 12/23 is nuts, but it's always difficult to schedule holiday weeks when the holiday falls on a weekend. But I agree that this is wrong. One of my neighbors is a teacher at an elementary school in Austell (Sanders) and she got married during the school year (not a vacation week). And I am sorry about any issues you will have because of this and I hope that everything works out.

In my own humble opinion, if you put up a non-refundable deposit for something, that is not a good thing. Even cruise lines, who have the strictest refund policies out there, will refund all of your money if you cancel within a couple of months of the trip. And, yes, I do understand why everybody is upset. I get it. But since I kept hearing all those people complaining about having to find childcare, I just didn't understand why the balanced calendar was better. And having a week off six weeks after you start school is crazy too. I don't really want to keep arguing about this, but I am unemployed and I have nothing else to do! :)

Although I am not a psychic I predict an outbreak of weeklong illness in late September, 2011 and in the week leading up to the winter holiday break in December, 2011. The system social workers will be so overwhelmed by the number of absences that investigations will have to be postponed. If a family has a vacation planned based on the calendar presented prior to the board meeting of Feb. 17, 2011 I wish you a wonderful week away from Cobb County. May your children be healthy and quiet about where they will be during that time. Have fun!!!

Michael- I appreciate seeing that you are trying to correct the Patch's incorrect quotation of Kathleen Angelucci regarding "jacked up emails". I was unaware that the Patch had incorrectly quoted her. Were you at the board meeting last week? If you were, then you know one of the speakers used that against her at the podium. In the name of responsible journalism, you should also appear as a public speaker at the next meeting and make a formal retraction. That woman was even on the TV news saying that. It's the right thing to do and will restore your integrity.

That's the kind of tactic tabloids use. If you want to be taken seriously, it's what you need to do. If you don't, it will tell me everything I need to know about you and The Patch.

Catherine, I'm not sure what we should retract. We originally quoted her as saying "jacked-up e-mails." We corrected that two days later to reflect the full quote, which did use "jacked up" in reference to e-mails. The context and, I believe, meaning were accurately conveyed from the start; we just made a mistake about where to put the closing quotation marks and corrected that mistake.

I was at the meeting and did hear the speaker's comment. Within the bounds of public debate, I think her comment reasonably reflected what Kathleen Angelucci meant: The number of e-mail messages was artificially inflated and thus not reflective of public opinion. And because she was speaking Thursday night, not writing, I can't say where she closed the quote, but she was accurate in the use of the phrase "jacked up."

I can't promise to appear at the next regular board meeting to make a statement about the jacked-up comment (I'm not sure where I'll be a week from now, let alone a month from now), but it's a possibility. I appreciate the suggestion.

According to my 20 something children, in today's venacular, "jacked up" refers to something or someone being "stupid". While I certainly do not want to put words in anyone's mouth I do wonder what Ms. Angelucci was truly saying when using the words "jacked up". It certainly appears as though she considers her constituents to be too stupid to contribute to her votes as a board member. I find no reason for Michael to do anything more than has already been done to explain a typographical mistake.

Here's what our reporter recorded Kathleen Angelucci saying Feb. 9:
"With regards to the e-mails that have been coming in, there was unfortunately … there was some incorrect and false information that was put out to the entire district with regards to this calendar and what it would mean and that if we started later that Thanksgiving break would be taken and Christmas holidays would be severely cut. … The unfortunate thing there was that it caused some unnecessary concerns and artificially raised the ire of parents and teachers throughout the district. They were under the impression that certain things had already been determined and that things were going to happen. And it just wasn’t true. And it was unfair because what it did, it ... clouded the … perception of what was going to happen. And it just wasn’t fair. …
"Mr. Banks raised this issue at one of the previous meetings that we’re going to get all these e-mails, so that information that was put out definitely jacked up the amount of e-mails that came through.
"And I just … I thought that was very unfortunate. I will tell you every board that comes in looks at what is best for the district with regards to the students. … If we’re looking at these kinds of budget deficits, I think that it is very important that we consider everything, and part of that is this calendar. And there is no doubt that there are savings by going to school later and having these schools open later in August."

I believe that Ms. Angelucci would benefit from both lessons in political etiquette and effective communication, both spoken and written. She seems to be of the opinion that everyone is entitled to Kathleen Angelucci's opinions.
This is just a blip on what will be a difficult four years for us all. Heaven help us.

I understand the non-refundable thing with some vacations, but I still think it's a bad idea to book a trip that would offer no refund if you had to cancel, and I don't think it should be allowed. There are so many things that could happen (not including a psycho school board). If just one person gets sick, if you have car problems, if there is a weather problem (remember, September is hurricane season) and a slew of other things. And I do feel bad for the people who may lose money. This will be a lesson learned, probably.

I see both sides. You can't live your life for what if's on one hand and if you can get a great deal by booking nonrefundable it's a plus. On the other had, I see what you mean and that is why there are other versions and insurance. That said even some insurance policies won't cover a "psycho school board" issue. ; )

Pam, I think you are missing the point, vacations are often planned a year in advance. Yes, it is a risk that people take, but if you planned a vacation according to an APPROVED calendar that was published on the WEBSITE for THREE YEAR forward.
NO board has previously (to my knowledge) changed a calendar the previous board has APPROVED before- especially at such late notice.
Also, people know of risk when when planning in advance, such risk oas illness, death of family etc.
Also, if people loose money, this will also negatively effect Cobb Economy, if a parent loses a $100, $ 1000 dollar deposit, the is less money they have to pump into the Cobb 's economy.

Also by booking vacation in advance and paying less, there is more of a family's disposable income again, they just might put that money into Cobb's economy.
You should be praising parents for being responsible, instead of mocking them for trying to save money.
Regarding tax guy-I guess they do not understand the question because it yes or no-lol

Hey, I'm just stating my opinion here. I still think that booking a trip with no chance of getting any money back if you cancel is a bad idea. I agree that the school board has created a mess. I totally agree that the vacation schedule is screwed up. That is not what I was originally commenting on. People were complaining because they thought with the traditional calendars they would have to find additional day care. As you and everybody is now pointing out, you lose two weeks with the traditional calendar, hence less day care. So what is this argument really about? Vacations or day care?

Quite frankly, I'm beginning to think that all of the Cobb County officials have a problem with being nice (and smart). I e-mailed the tax assessor to ask if we were getting our homestead exemption tax credit back this year, and he (Phil Hogsed, Director) e-mailed me back and said he didn't understand my question. Like I've said, I have lived in this county all my life, and things are just getting weird.

@Robin A bully such as Kathleen Angelucci does not understand reasonable debate. That is why she accused you of being rude. The CCSD has a bullying expert on staff - Jeff Dess - I believe that it is time for Mr. Dess to introduce himself to Ms. Angelucci.
Has anyone received responses from the other members of the "Gang of Four Idiots"? I emailed each of the board members and received responses from Lynda Crowder-Eagle, David Banks, and Kathleen Angelucci. I would consider only one of the three responses to be rude. Can you guess who?

Sign the petition to keep the current calendar if you have not already done so: http://www.petitions24.com/ccsd_calender

Pass it on!

@Kim I suggest that your children start acting sick the week before your cruise. Practice makes perfect when faking an illness. Oh, yes, I believe that your children may well have a fake cold sometime in February next year and it will be miraculously cured by a wonderful cruise. Let the "Gang of Four Idiots" prove that your children were not absent due to illness.

Kim, are you sure you can't get a refund? That is a year away and their rules state that you can get a refund if you cancel up to 70 days before the cruise. I had to do that about a year ago, and I cancelled the cruise 82 days before the cruise and I got all of my money back. There again, I wouldn't be happy about having to cancel a cruise either for any reason.

I will look into the bumper sticker printing. We really need an organized effort to rid the county of the sort of mentality exhibited by the "Gang".
The negative comments about teachers is one of the main reasons there are discipline problems in today's classrooms unlike any of us saw when we were in school. If the parents show their disrespect for the efforts of their childrens' teachers that same disrespect will be displayed at school by their children. It must be an awesome to know everything about great teaching without ever having taught!

Balanced:
-allows down time for children- remember they wake up at 6:15 to be on the bus by 6:50 and get home at 2:45
-allows family to travel in the FALL when weather is cooler. Off season ( cheaper) rates for Feb.
-Allows for a break BEFORE Christmas- children get to enjoy the Holiday Season ( visit family, bake cookies, volunteer ( yes, we visit and bring cookies every year to nursing homes)
-allows High Schoolers to go to Driving School ( instead of overbooking their Saturdays)
- allows my child care cost to be spread out instead of the cash crunch for summer.
- allows us to travel for cub scouts-without taking the boys out of school

There ARE NOT three extra weeks off! The students are in school the same number of days using the balanced calendar as the traditional calendar. Had the balanced calendar been given the three years that were originally guaranteed there would have been some clever businesses that would have created wonderful weeklong camps just as those that exist during the long summer break. The high school students might make some extra money babysitting rather than having to work after school thus giving them more time to study. Ultimately, parents are responsible for finding appropriate activities for their children when school is not in session. As I have stated, my daughters are both teachers. They have spent the week catching up on the excessive paperwork that is required of all teachers and have had no "break" at all. I will guarantee that come Monday morning they will be ready to teach and their students will be ready to learn.

Lisa, there are three extra weeks off with the balanced calendar. Because the kids would start on Aug. 1, that would help make up the extra days. A week in September, a week in February, and a week in April. Plus the weeks for Thanksgiving and Christmas. And, yes, I see that you love the balanced calendar.

Might I suggest that each of us remind those who voted for the "traditional calendar" rather than the "balanced calendar" that they should enjoy their short-lived power play. Remind them of our disgust at their obvious disregard for the community they represent with weekly email updates to them. I would love for Ms. Angelucci and Company to continue to receive the numerous "jacked up" emails for the remainder of their one term school board tenure. If we can't recall them maybe we can just enjoy the little bit of karma we can send their way.

We either approve the SPLOST or our property taxes goes up. It really is blackmail. And until we get our homestead exemption property tax deduction back, I can't afford for my property taxes to go up. But I didn't see anything about schools getting any help from the SPLOST.